Mapping AC3Filter gain to WAV volume control

[mrslother]

How can I map the AC3Filter gain to the Windows WAV volume control?

I am using this on my Media Center and it is currently insane to control volume. For PCM (stereo, SD TV, MP3, etc) I can use my MCE remote to go up and down with volume. But if I am watching a DVD or HDTV or even stereo captured via firewire (its encoded in AC3) then I have to use my receiver's remote.

My goal is to use only one remote (the MCE remote) to control volume, selecting content, navigation, etc. Having to use multiple remotes for multiple reasons based on multiple criteria is enough to drive my wife nuts.

Thanks for any help!

[valex]

I suppose that you use SPDIF passthrough output for AC3. It is impossible to control the volume of compressed stream on the computer side at all in this case. (read http://ac3filter.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10)

Use programmable remote that can work with both devices and use only receiver's volume control.

[mrslother]

Thanks for your quick reply.

I did read the web page you cited (great explanation, btw). Presuming that I am not using passthrough then the AC3 is decoded into PCM then later re-encoded back into AC3. When it is in PCM the filter can apply some amount of gain before re-encoding, correct? Couldn't the amount of gain dynamically adjust itself based on the volume setting?
It seems like this would resolve the multi-remote issue, no?

Or am I missing something here?

[valex]

Couldn't the amount of gain dynamically adjust itself based on the volume setting?

Well, it could work... But it connects the filter to system options that is undesirable and unclear in most cases. Let's consider options:
1) What gain filter should apply at maximum windows level?
2) What gain filter should apply at minimul windows level?
3) When filter should apply no gain?
4) Filter gain and windows volume are different things: when applying filter gain overflow can occur, but windows/receiver volume does not produce overflow.
(read more about volume and gain here: http://ac3filter.net/doc/ac3filter/ac3filter_eng.html#theory_loudness)
5) SPDIF-as-PCM mode. This mode requires windows volume to be at maxium level. We still can control gain at filter but when we try to decrease windows volume it will break the sound.
6) No SPDIF mode: adjusting gain according to windows volume will double adjust the sound (with possible overflow).

Therefore this option have a point ONLY in your case. I cannot imagine any other situation where we may use it.

[mrslother]

1) What gain filter should apply at maximum windows level?
2) What gain filter should apply at minimul windows level?
3) When filter should apply no gain?
4) Filter gain and windows volume are different things: when applying filter gain overflow can occur, but windows/receiver volume does not produce overflow.
(read more about volume and gain here: http://ac3filter.net/doc/ac3filter/ac3filter_eng.html#theory_loudness)
5) SPDIF-as-PCM mode. This mode requires windows volume to be at maxium level. We still can control gain at filter but when we try to decrease windows volume it will break the sound.
6) No SPDIF mode: adjusting gain according to windows volume will double adjust the sound (with possible overflow).

Not to drag this out any further, but we could spec out the functionality of this. It seems to me that this would be quite useful for users of PC multimedia as well as MCE users. I can't believe that I am the only one out there that would like to control AC3 audio from the same remote that controls my MCE (without the hassle of moving to a universal remote).

I am thinking of simply using the Windows volume as a guide which is proportional to the gain setting. For example if Win volume is at 100% then the filter's gain is applied as 100% of the gain setting. As the volume setting decreases then the filter would apply that % to its master gain setting. So the max amount of gain that would be set would be whatever the master gain setting is and the min gain could be set by the user (prefereably enough negative gain that it would render the recevier's audio as quite.

Note that I am not suggesting that volume setting would ever cause an increase in gain beyond what the user set it as. Therefore if overflow would occur it would occur regardless of the Win volume setting.

If this is really unfeasable then what other solution is available (short of universal remote or using double fisted remotes)?

Thanks again for your help.

[RobInMN]

Not to drag this out any further, but we could spec out the functionality of this. It seems to me that this would be quite useful for users of PC multimedia as well as MCE users. I can't believe that I am the only one out there that would like to control AC3 audio from the same remote that controls my MCE (without the hassle of moving to a universal remote).

I am thinking of simply using the Windows volume as a guide which is proportional to the gain setting. For example if Win volume is at 100% then the filter's gain is applied as 100% of the gain setting. As the volume setting decreases then the filter would apply that % to its master gain setting. So the max amount of gain that would be set would be whatever the master gain setting is and the min gain could be set by the user (prefereably enough negative gain that it would render the recevier's audio as quite.

Note that I am not suggesting that volume setting would ever cause an increase in gain beyond what the user set it as. Therefore if overflow would occur it would occur regardless of the Win volume setting.

If this is really unfeasable then what other solution is available (short of universal remote or using double fisted remotes)?

Thanks again for your help.

You are not the only one.  I was actually expecting this to work this way, and didn't realize it wouldn't.  I was actually thinking this was possibly a sound card driver configuration issue. I may actually have other issues, but now I will have to see what happens if I un-install AC3Filter.

  -- Rob

[RobInMN]

This can be done with SPDIF and it has been done:
http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/thread/49572.aspx
It's called Volume Tracker

Unfortunately, this only works on things not going through AC3Filter.  This program works great for MCE sounds & Music.  It also works with all movies I tried before re-installing AC3Filter (1.11).  It will also work on any sound type that I turn AC3Filter off for (System|Use AC3Filter for...).  But when I turn AC3Filter back on for these, Volume Tracker no longer has any affect.

It would be really great if you could somehow make AC3Filter and Volume Tracker work together.

  -- Rob

[stevom]

So I need this feature too.

I must control volume on the PC because my surround receiver is so well-placed that it can't receive infra red signal from the remote control.

The issues like "Volume Tracker" and "MatchMaster" don't work with sound cards that have no functional SPDIF volume control in windows mixer. This programs do only that master volume control and SPDIF volume control moves together. They work only with sound cards that do software reencoding of the AC3 stream in their drivers. But not with sound cards with really pass through - such sound cards need AC3Filter with activated option "Use AC3 encoder".

It would be nice somehow to map the AC3Filter gain to the Windows WAV or master volume control even maybe it would broke the AC3 stream in some specific situations.

Thanks for help.

[FaberfoX]

I need this feature too for MCE, my cheap receiver has no remote control, and it sucks to get up to lower the volume for ac3 content.
My proposal is to have a check box somewhere that when checked affects the master gain linearly as a function of the wave volume. It can only decrease said gain, leaving it as is when the wave volume is at maximum and lowering it to -20 when at minimum.
So, GainWhenChecked = MinGain + ( (Gain - MinGain) * (Vol / MaxVol) ).  Does this sound logical to you?
If you are not willing to include this as a feature, could you point me to the segment of source I should look into to get this working?

[Spragleknas]

I can't believe that I am the only one out there that would like to control AC3 audio from the same remote that controls my MCE (without the hassle of moving to a universal remote).

You do know that the MCE-remote IS a universal remote? (Well, limited anyway).

You can program the VOL+, VOL- and TV-button

I use mine to control volume of my Z-5500

[FaberfoX]

Yes, I know that... but:
1) I have an adaptec tuner (av3610) that came with a remote that can't be programmed, and
2) My receiver (yamaha tss1-b) does not have a remote...

I'm gonna ask around to see if I can get help from someone who's knowledgeable on the windows api and c++, as I program but in higher level languages (clarion, php, asp)

[RobInMN]

Valex,

Now that you are back with an update.  Any chance you will address the mapping of the gain to the volume control.  Even if you don't build it in, can you atleast make AC3Filter play nicely with VolumeTracker? So that VolumeTracker will have an effect on those streams AC3Filter is controlling?


  -- Rob

from http://chrisnet.net/code.htm :
"Volume Tracker - Great for systems using Digital Audio Out, such as SP-DIF. With Digital Audio output, only the wave volume effects the output level, not the master volume. Yet multimedia keyboards and remote controls only adjust the master volume. This app tracks the wave volume to the master volume by monitoring changes to the mixer control. Works on 2000, XP and Windows Media Center. "

[PieterPan]

Hi,

I second the request for windows master (or wave) volume mapping when using direct passthrough. Just a checkbox that will cause AC3Filter to decode the stream, adjust the volume and reencode it?

The way I would see it, it would map maximum windows volume with the original 'volume', and it would filter it down with lower windows volumes. Perhaps mute it at 0 windows volume?

I think a lot of people would be happy with this option, which you could leave disabled by default. (Most of the time you would want direct passthrough to indeed leave the stream AS IS).

Thanks for your time,
Pieter

[RobInMN]

bump.

Please...

  -- Rob

[Frankyg]

I can't believe that I am the only one out there that would like to control AC3 audio from the same remote that controls my MCE (without the hassle of moving to a universal remote).

You do know that the MCE-remote IS a universal remote? (Well, limited anyway).

You can program the VOL+, VOL- and TV-button

I use mine to control volume of my Z-5500

Hi - I have Z-680 system, was wondering how you control the volume using the MCE remote? Would love to do this on my system!

Thanks,
Frankyg